The Sober Professional: Building Your Career Alcohol-Free

[00:00:55] Sonia: Hi, we're Kathleen and Sonia and you're listening to Sisters in Sorority. Thanks for [00:01:00] being here. I'm Sonia and I'm with my sister in sorority, actually my sister in law Kathleen. Kathleen, how are you doing today?

[00:01:06] Kathleen: I am doing really well. How are you doing today?

[00:01:09] Sonia: I'm okay. I got up at, 445 because I was going to drive to Toronto this morning. and I went out and it was Snowing and there was like an inch or two of snow on my driveway. So I'm here and I may leave tomorrow

[00:01:25] Kathleen: Which is not like, I should say, that's not typical for where you live. You don't get a lot of snow,

[00:01:31] Sonia: No, it's not typical and I feel like I have a Valentine's Day curse. And so Last year my divorce is final on Valentine's Day and it looks like tomorrow. I will be In a car on Valentine's Day.

[00:01:46] Kathleen: Well, hopefully we get to see you and break the curse.

[00:01:48] Sonia: Yeah, I hope so too. So today We're talking about work and sobriety. And for many of us, our careers aren't just jobs, but they're a significant part of our identity. [00:02:00] So when we're also navigating sobriety, our work lives can either be a challenge or a supportive element in the process. And today we'll talk about how our professional aspirations can coexist with our sobriety.

[00:02:13] Kathleen: That's right. We're going to share our own experiences and offer insights on how to maintain this balance. So whether you're years into your sobriety journey or you're just starting out, this episode is about understanding the unique challenges of the professional world. And whether you're climbing the corporate ladder, running your own business, or finding your footing in the professional world while maintaining your sobriety, This episode is for you.

[00:02:39] So Sonia, what are potential challenges of being sober while maintaining your career?

[00:02:46] Sonia: Yeah. I think it seems like on the surface, like managing a professional. career while committing to a sober lifestyle is just that, but it's more than that. you really need to find harmony between The [00:03:00] pressures of work and the personal journey of recovery

[00:03:03] And sometimes in your work setting, it's not really supportive of the nuances of recovery. you may want to go to meetings and it just doesn't align with your schedule. So it is about finding some sort of balance between work and recovery. What do you think the challenges of being sober and the work environment are?

[00:03:23] Kathleen: I think there are a bunch of challenges, actually. I think that it sometimes can be really hard to separate personal and professional. And, sometimes there are work environments that are just. You know, people end up hanging out with all their work colleagues, and so I think that could be tough.

[00:03:41] if you are in a work culture that really values partying, for example, I think there's also the feeling of not fitting in or the challenge of feeling like you are losing opportunities, let's say, in the workplace. because you're sober. And what I mean by that is, if you're [00:04:00] in an environment that Values or, you know, deals are done over drinks at the bar, then you might feel like you're going to miss out.

[00:04:10] What could this balance of work and sobriety mean for the listeners?

[00:04:15] Sonia: Yeah, I think for some people it can really be a challenge. So if your trigger to drink is stress and your work is particularly stressful, that's definitely a challenge. But for some people, it's really a source of empowerment to make the changes they have needed to make to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

[00:04:35] What do you think?

[00:04:37] Kathleen: I really think, the balance of work and sobriety is, I'm going to say it's less of a balance actually, because I really believe that sobriety needs to be prioritized and I think there has to be self awareness, about the triggers, you know, what kind of environment are you working in?

[00:04:57] What triggers you? and I think it's [00:05:00] really important to set boundaries and avoid it. overextending yourself. so that might mean learning to say no to an excessive workload. It may mean, avoiding work related events where there's pressure to drink or use substances and, ensuring that work does not encroach upon your recovery activities.

[00:05:18] Because when you think about it, without your sobriety, What, is happening at work? So, work could be suffering anyway. So I think it's less of a a balance to me indicates like 50 50. I'm going to say that it's more of harmony. Work and sobriety, harmony.

[00:05:38] Sonia: Yeah, I just, I was listening to Sarah Blondin and she talked about, how you get harmony in your life

[00:05:44] Kathleen: Yeah so how do you balance professional life with your sobriety?

[00:05:48] Sonia: So, I'm lucky, my professional life is about sobriety, but I think that's even a testament to the fact that it doesn't limit our professional aspirations, and it can really [00:06:00] fuel our growth and success in really unexpected ways. This is very unexpected for me, so sobriety just really opened my eyes to what was out there,

[00:06:08] and part of the reason I was drinking so much is because I wasn't living my passion and, I'm not able to dedicate my professional work anymore to something I don't care deeply about because it's not an option to come home and numb those feelings. What about you?

[00:06:27] Kathleen: Well, how I balance it now is a lot different than for a long time I worked in the corporate world and I had pretty crazy intense jobs and I'd say that I didn't have a great balance between my professional life and sobriety. I think a lot of my drug use actually stemmed from the kind of work that I was doing a long time ago.

[00:06:47] but now I'm a psychotherapist and I think it really, allows me to understand my clients from a different lens. I have worked [00:07:00] with several people who are sober and there's just a different understanding.

[00:07:05] I don't self disclose a lot in my,psychotherapy sessions, but definitely where appropriate, I, I will mention that I'm sober if it is appropriate for my client and will help them.

[00:07:19] I know we've talked a lot about how big a stressor work was for you and how did you handle it?

[00:07:25] Sonia: I drank heavily. I had no other coping mechanisms for stress.

[00:07:32] Kathleen: Okay, so there's definitely a story there how you changed your work environment and got sober.

[00:07:37] Sonia: Oh, there it is.

[00:07:38] Kathleen: Okay. Tell us about it.

[00:07:39] Sonia: So, for me, school and work were my biggest stressors and triggers and excuses for drinking since I can remember. since I was a teenager. And so, it started as binge drinking after exams. [00:08:00] So I had sort of internalized that work hard, play hard. And so I'd really compartmentalized parts of my life.

[00:08:07] And so yeah, my stressors, I think it's always been underlying this fear of failure and this feeling of striving to be better. And then also on top of that, social pressure. I never was comfortable,dealing with people in any environment. And so drinking really lubricated that.

[00:08:28] And so when I started working full time in 2008, my only coping mechanism by that point was alcohol. And I was encountering new stressors every day. So as an orthodontist, I had to manage patients, their expectations and concerns, my staff, which was really large. And then on top of that, managing the physical offices themselves.

[00:08:55] And, and then the other kind of like stressors of adult life, right? [00:09:00] Like how do you set up a retirement account? How do you get healthcare? And so Any stress, that set off that anxiety would make me drink. And so, yeah, I, it also was a way to manage my frustration, lack of confidence. I had pretty significant imposter syndrome.

[00:09:19] And so, for, a lot of years. I knew that I had a problem with alcohol, but I had no idea how to quit. and I did at some point realize that my mental health was deteriorating because of my work stress. And so, yeah, I made some major changes. I started delegating and Learning to let go and not micromanage.

[00:09:42] And that was really good professionally. All of a sudden I could accomplish more things. I had a team and it really put my business in a position where it could. Be sold. And so I was working slowly towards,just [00:10:00] improving my day to day lifestyle. I hadn't quit drinking yet, but I think in my mind I was preparing for that.

[00:10:06] And then luckily, um, we were able to sell the business and then that change really spurred me. Yeah,

[00:10:14] Kathleen: Wow. That's, that's amazing. That's such an amazing journey for you. So how can someone in recovery effectively manage work related stress without turning to alcohol?

[00:10:29] Sonia: I think this goes back to like, we're always talking about tools and coping mechanisms. And for me, I feel stress in, My body and all stress. It feels the same. It's like in my chest. Sometimes it's in my throat and I think all of the self care and self compassion techniques that we spoke about in a couple of episodes back and Knowing at the end of the day that you can look forward to a [00:11:00] relaxing self care ritual instead of a drink is really important.

[00:11:04] And so, and I do that, so I know, I have a plan, right, for when I have a hard day. There's always a plan. There's always a mocktail in the fridge. There's always, popcorn in the pantry. And so, yeah, on top of that, for me, there is a mental health component, right, where I do have a baseline level of anxiety.

[00:11:22] And I do need that additional layer of therapy and or medication, which maybe you can talk a little bit more about.

[00:11:32] Kathleen: Yeah, our baseline mental health does contribute to our reaction to workplace stress, absolutely. You know, the thing is, so many of our workplaces are just toxic, to be honest. Like we're just, especially in North America, and even parts of Europe, for sure.

[00:11:51] Just because there's such a hustle and a lot of workplaces don't promote. Mental health. And so burnout is a [00:12:00] real concern. And basically, when someone is burned out, that means they've been working really hard for years and years, months and months, not taking care of themselves really fast paced environment.

[00:12:12] it means that you can just be more reactive. I speak about the window of tolerance to my clients, which is basically within that window of tolerance. You're able to have, you know, reactions that are or not react, for example, or to have stress at a manageable level.

[00:12:30] But when you're out of your window of tolerance, you are going to be more reactive and you can get into a downward spiral. And I think that's where. Using substances to cope is, is what people might go towards, um, if they don't have other coping mechanisms.

[00:12:48] Sonia: Yeah, that makes sense. I had no other coping mechanisms what are common workplace triggers for people in recovery and what strategies can we use to handle those triggers?

[00:12:59] Kathleen: You know, [00:13:00] stress, social pressures, even environmental cues related to past substance use. So, if you are working an environment that everyone goes out on Thursday for drinks, or actually, I remember I used to work in a PR agency, Early early in my career and a bar cart would go around on Fridays and we drink at our desks to kind of wrap up the week.

[00:13:24] So, uh, that would have been an environmental cue for me.

[00:13:28] Sonia: We don't do that in healthcare. Nobody does that in healthcare. They don't wheel around a bar cart.

[00:13:35] Kathleen: I was working in PR. I think it probably still happens to be honest. I don't know. I haven't worked in PR for a long time, but I remember that bar cart would go around on Fridays

[00:13:48] Sonia: gonna lie. If I knew that I would have gone into PR when I was like in

[00:13:51] my 20s.

[00:13:52] Kathleen: I would have a G and T at

[00:13:53] my desk while I worked my 18 hour days.

[00:13:56] Yeah. Anyway, and we wonder why [00:14:00] I became out of control, but, so I think, you know, antidotes for that stress management, obviously, you know, we haven't talked about mindfulness yet, but we will eventually, but there's lots of different ways to implement stress management in your life. Just going out for a walk, like a really short walk around the block, in your, in the middle of your day just to, to let that nervous system regulate a little bit.

[00:14:23] Boundary setting, having a support system in place, you love this one, plan. You have a plan for those triggers. And then having a real focus on your health and wellness.

[00:14:35] Sonia: Yeah, I totally agree. so you and I both have had some major career changes, I don't know if I would say necessarily as a result of sobriety, but as a result of wanting to change our lives, right? And so is it common for people to change their career paths post recovery and what factors should people consider when they're thinking about that?

[00:14:59] Kathleen: [00:15:00] So it's a tough question. I don't have, a number of 50 percent of people change their career paths post recovery. I do know that not not everyone has the luxury of doing that, right? but sure, if you're a bartender and you get sober, is that going to be harder for you? Yes, it is.

[00:15:17] And there are a lot of factors that go into a decision like that, whether or not it's It's financially realistic for you to switch careers.when I was at the height of my addiction, I worked in a very, very corporate environment where it was often required that I pulled all nighters, was that the best for me knowing Who I am.

[00:15:36] No, it absolutely wasn't. I didn't switch my job per se when I got sober Because I was sober, but I wanted a job that was more aligned to my values And so that's what ended up happening for me. What does a healthy work life Balance or harmony look like for someone in recovery and how can that be achieved?[00:16:00]

[00:16:00] Sonia: Yeah, I think there's some really important things you can do, especially when you don't have complete control over your schedule, and it involves planning. and so I've swung from, a decade ago having no control over my work schedule, like having to be there from 8 a. m. to 8 p. m., to now having almost complete control over my schedule.

[00:16:23] So When I, when I have complete control over my schedule, I do a combination of, like, work, life throughout the day. So, I will, if, if you guys want to talk at, like, 10 a. m. or one of my nieces, yeah, I'll take an hour out and push everything back an hour. I'll take walks with my dogs. But, I think the most important thing I do, so, that I'm not triggered is that I don't let myself spiral, right, to the point where I need to drink.

[00:16:54] And I, and the way I do it is I triage problems, right? And so [00:17:00] I, into urgent, normal, and less important, less important being more like long term. And by doing that, it gives Me a sense of calm and I think a lot of people, feel overwhelmed and this is like a technique I use that really helps with that feeling.

[00:17:17] And then it really stops me from getting to that point where I'm just. So overwhelmed and the only thing that's going to work is having a drink. So I know you were in a corporate environment, which I never was. So I'm really curious. I imagine you have some unique insights into that lifestyle of socializing.

[00:17:38] Kathleen: I do. I was in it for, I don't know, maybe a decade and a half, maybe more.

[00:17:45] Sonia: Wow. so in your twenties and thirties, So what was that like?

[00:17:53] Kathleen: I worked in PR at first, and then I ended up working in really corporate PR. [00:18:00] So I would fly all over the world and I worked in doing communications, around, I would say crisis management or change management.

[00:18:08] And at the time I lived downtown Toronto, I worked a block away from my apartment. By necessity, because I worked so, so much, I wanted to be able to just walk a block and go home and go to sleep, but most of my friends were lawyers, investment bankers, and we would, more than occasionally, we would meet up after work, which might have been late, and drink, Quite frankly, I needed to use cocaine often to stay up to be able to work the hours I was working.

[00:18:37] It was just also part of the scene. it's just what we did. And I remember knowing that some of my friends did coke before heading into the office in the morning. but my health was really suffering. I was exhausted. My body and mind were just, I was burnt out.

[00:18:53] I was just totally spent. I remember feeling like my body was an 80 year old woman. and I was in my late twenties.[00:19:00] my mental health. Also started to suffer. I fell into a period of a deep depression around that time and the cycle just continued. So heavy drinking, drug use and work. And then I would hit the gym and run.

[00:19:13] midday for 45 minutes which great if I was doing it for stress management, but not with the drinking and the cocaine use. I can't even imagine my poor. My poor heart, from, from just all that excess, I guess excess stress and just stressing my whole body and mind.

[00:19:34] And it wasn't until I was able to get off that hamster wheel that I could stop and re prior, re prioritize things in my life.

[00:19:41] Sonia: So, how do you manage professional relationships that were once intertwined with alcohol related activities like you're describing?

[00:19:56] Kathleen: It's really hard. I will say that. I'm not going to paint a picture [00:20:00] like, once I got sober from drugs, it was easy. It wasn't. I, I didn't go out anymore with those friends after work. I couldn't stay up and work the hours I was working. I had to really just make changes. So I, I would recommend, if you have to have those work relationships, which I'm sure, people do, and they're necessary, that maybe they revolve around other activities rather than drinking or drugs, especially early on in the sobriety journey.

[00:20:31] Drinking was never my main issue. I definitely think it was an issue, but it was not my main issue. Could I now go to a bar, where people are drinking for if it was for work related? Sure, but it's also been 15 years since I stopped using drugs. So, yeah, I think it, it's, it's hard in early sobriety, but you need to have, have ways to build those relationships that are other than drinking or [00:21:00] drugs.

[00:21:00] How do you think you can navigate work events where alcohol is present, especially when you either need to go to that event or you're really encouraged to go?

[00:21:11] Sonia: Yeah, so I love a good plan, and so I always, at any social event, I always have a non alcoholic drink in my hand, and that can prevent people from offering you a drink, but I would still have some response ready. If someone asks you why you're not drinking, you don't owe anyone details, and you just pick something that works for you.

[00:21:32] I have an early morning, I feel better not drinking, and set a time limit. It's It's totally okay to make an appearance, connect with a few people, and leave early. As I like to say, nothing good happens. past midnight. and focus on networking. So shift the focus from drinking to making these meaningful connections and engage in conversations, listen [00:22:00] actively and use it as an opportunity to strengthen professional relationships.

[00:22:04] And I think you'll be so much happier waking up the next morning and not wondering what you said to Bob in accounting. So how do you navigate work events when alcohol is present?

[00:22:18] Kathleen: Well, now, there really aren't work events that I go to as a psychotherapist where alcohol is present, but what I will say, if I was back in PR, and I was asked to go to work events. I would say I am well, 1st of all, I'm a huge proponent of advocating for work events that don't revolve around alcohol.

[00:22:38] So, but I agree having a plan. if you're able to making an appearance, like you said, then heading out, I would say much before midnight. But focus on the networking aspect, even have some goals around that, who do you want to talk to that night and take the focus off the alcohol. sometimes you do have to go to work events where alcohol is present.

[00:22:58] So, you know, [00:23:00] make it, make it a, okay, I'm going to talk to so and so and so and so and so and so and make those connections. And then once I've done that, I'm going to go. Yeah,

[00:23:09] Sonia: So, I want to talk a little bit, about disclosing a substance use disorder in the workplace because not all workplaces are created equal, and I would say the caveat to all of this is do your research, and so you should, understand your rights.

[00:23:27] And the policies so familiar. Familiarize yourself with the workplace's policies on substance abuse and confidentiality. Many workplaces have specific protocols for these situations.

[00:23:40] Kathleen: choose the right person to speak with. So it's usually best to disclose this information to someone in a position of trust and authority. Potentially a manager, HR representative, or, a workplace counselor, but choose someone who is likely to be understanding and knowledgeable about the [00:24:00] company's policies and support systems.

[00:24:03] Sonia: Focus on professionalism, emphasize your commitment to your job and your intention to remain professional, and acknowledge how your recovery journey might intersect with your work life and how you plan to manage it.

[00:24:17] Kathleen: Remember that you have a right to privacy, so you don't need to disclose more information that what is necessary for your employer to understand your situation and provide you with support.

[00:24:28] Sonia: Also, know your legal protections. In some places, people with substance abuse problems are protected under disability laws. Not always. But in that case, it means employers are required to provide reasonable accommodations and can't discriminate against you. But, Do your research. Everyone's situation is unique and it's important to consider your specific circumstances and needs.

[00:24:55] And the process of disclosure can be tough, but it can also be a step [00:25:00] towards getting the support you need while maintaining your professional life. It was one of the biggest barriers I know for me getting sober was, being afraid. For people to know that I had a substance use problem in my work environment.

[00:25:16] So, do your research

[00:25:18] Kathleen: What resonated with you from today's episode?

[00:25:22] I think what resonated for me was you talking about that corporate atmosphere. I, because I've been in healthcare,There's just not a lot of encouraging drinking, especially on the job. no bar cart going down the dental office.

[00:25:38] Sonia: there's no bar cart stopping at each chair while you're like prepping a crown.

[00:25:43] Kathleen: Can you imagine?

[00:25:45] Sonia: Actually, it's really funny. I did know an orthodontist that he had adult only patients in an only Invisalign practice, and he did offer them a drink when they came in. And I remember thinking, that is crazy. but yeah, I [00:26:00] think that I need to be also when I'm talking to people more sensitive if that is their work environment and help them get a plan for when they are expected to go to events.

[00:26:13] It's not as easy as saying, I don't want to go to that event that they actually do have. Some bearing on your professional life and you're expected to network. So that's what resonated with me is how intertwined that culture is with substance use or abuse. What resonated with you?

[00:26:35] Kathleen: So actually it was something you said related to how you. Help yourself from not getting into a spiral and I think this definitely applies to work But saying that you triage problems from urgent normal and less important And I think I'm gonna start doing that in life. I think that could be so helpful.

[00:26:56] if someone is going through a lot of stress in the [00:27:00] workplace, from work responsibilities or projects they have on their plate or whatever it is to really triage that and put them into categories can kind of focus you. And I think. If you are trying to maintain your sobriety while working, I think it can be a really healthy, way to, to really look at your issues and challenges.

[00:27:20] So that resonated with me.

[00:27:22] Sonia: So before we wrap on this week's episode, we want to talk mocktails.

[00:27:28] Kathleen: Woo hoo. We are gonna be trying two different mocktails today.

[00:27:32] Sonia: And maybe these will be available at your next work event. Uh,

[00:27:38] Kathleen: And your bar

[00:27:39] Sonia: yeah, you can request these for your bar cart. Um, so we are testing two, wine alternatives.

[00:27:47] from the company Garuvi, G R U V I.

[00:27:52] And so we will start with the Dry Secco, whichis a

[00:27:59] a [00:28:00] dry white

[00:28:00] Kathleen: see.

[00:28:02] Is it supposed to be like a Prosecco?

[00:28:05] Sonia: It is inspired, yeah, it's inspired by the effervescence of champagne. It is the non alcoholic Prosecco. So

[00:28:15] it is non alcoholic carbonated wine crafted from hand picked and blended wine grapes. It's semi dry.

[00:28:25] Kathleen: Yeah,

[00:28:25] ingredients, spring water, chardonnay, grape juice, concentrate. Like it smells like wine. Just a second here.

[00:28:33] Sonia: it tastes like wine.

[00:28:37] Kathleen: Oh,

[00:28:40] Sonia: I would say it has the color of like a Pinot Grigio. So it's not like a Chardonnay color, maybe like a Prosecco ish color.

[00:28:48] Kathleen: I like it a lot, actually.

[00:28:50] Sonia: do!

[00:28:50] Kathleen: Yeah. It might be too like alcoholy for, yeah.

[00:28:54] Sonia: So for me, I am not a huge fan of things that taste a [00:29:00] lot like alcohol, but I think that where mocktails are going, right? People want to be able to have a complex beverage. so I will give it that. It sure does taste like alcohol.

[00:29:12] Kathleen: does. I'm gonna say that this does taste like Prosecco to me. The, the tiny bubbles, you know, the tiny bubbles of Prosecco, like not those like big Carbonated, it's like this like light fizz and it smells like wine.

[00:29:28] Sonia: I would love to make a mimosa out of this. or a bolini,Oh, you know what I just got? I got, um, from Trader Joe's, like little

[00:29:34] cans of mango juice. So, I wouldn't mind. Um, making a mango bellini with this, so I think the, the take home for me is it sure does taste like Prosecco,

[00:29:46] Kathleen: It sure does.

[00:29:47] It sure does. I, I quite enjoy it, I have to say.

[00:29:54] Sonia: Well, the, they claim it is best enjoyed with celebration toasts, [00:30:00] baby showers, and early morning brunch. Is this going to be on the brunch menu for next Christmas?

[00:30:06] Kathleen: I was totally thinking it would be actually, I think it would be great as a mimosa, but if I think Sonya's right, if you are not into drinks that taste like alcohol, then take a hard pass on this one. But look, it's made in Canada.

[00:30:22] Sonia: Yeah, yeah, it sure is.

[00:30:24] Kathleen: I didn't know that.

[00:30:25] Sonia: do you think It would be fun to try to convince people, like our family members that do drink, that it is alcohol

[00:30:34] Kathleen: I think that's a really fun activity

[00:30:37] Sonia: think that's how, how much it tastes like alcohol, but you think it would pass.

[00:30:41] Kathleen: yeah, it does taste like alcohol. It does. It tastes like Prosecco. And I have to tell you, that's the one thing I've missed.

[00:30:49] It's the one drink I've missed.

[00:30:51] Sonia: I'm a, I'm a fan of ginger ale, the champagne of sodas. _Um,_ but I, I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying.

[00:30:59] Kathleen: Yeah, I used [00:31:00] to like a glass of Prosecco. So, now I can have

[00:31:03] one. Without the alcohol.

[00:31:06] Sonia: Okay, next we're trying Groovy's Bubbly Rosé. Which, I'm a sucker for anything pink. And I love a pink drink, I love a pink anything. And so, I am excited about this one also.

[00:31:21] Kathleen: Ooh, very bubbly, as I poured it into the glass.

[00:31:24] Sonia: do you think?

[00:31:26] Kathleen: Sonja's just like drinking straight from the bottle.

[00:31:29] Sonia: Yeah, I am.

[00:31:30] Kathleen: Oh, it smells sweeter than rosé.

[00:31:36] Sonia: Yeah?

[00:31:38] Kathleen: That does not taste like rosé. Not to me.

[00:31:44] Sonia: What does it taste like to you?

[00:31:48] Kathleen: It tastes like, yeah, I guess I can see a bit of, now I can taste a bit of the rosé, yeah. I guess I can taste a bit of it. it tastes like a little bit [00:32:00] more fruity to me.

[00:32:03] Sonia: Yeah, I agree. I think it has some apple. Notes

[00:32:07] Kathleen: Let me look.

[00:32:08] Sonia: that I really like. I don't know if it has apples in it,

[00:32:11] Kathleen: No. Oh, both are made with this Chardonnay grape juice concentrate.

[00:32:15] Sonia: I'm not gonna lie, like I do get a little, um, a twinge when people, say that they're gonna have rose all day. And so now I feel like I can have rose all day if I want. I actually think I could drink this. I think that this would be my rosé all day. Also, they suggest you can mix it with muddled figs, honey, and a squeeze of lemon juice.

[00:32:45] Kathleen: Oh, I am all over that. That's so good.

[00:32:49] Sonia: How do you muddle a fig?

[00:32:51] Kathleen: don't know, but I think we should try. I am gonna say like, I'm gonna say 10 for these, for me. [00:33:00] I know, I really like them and I'm a hard critic on these things, but I really am down with these groovy. I mean, is it that there's like a lotus flower for their logo and they're using an umlaut?

[00:33:14] that might be part of it, but I, and it's made in Canada, I'm giving this a 10 This is going to be regularly stocked. Yeah, this is going to be regularly stocked in my fridge.

[00:33:26] Sonia: Okay, and did you get these at the grocery store? Okay. Okay.

[00:33:29] Kathleen: I did. I got them at the grocery store. Now, I live in the greater Toronto area and so they were in a grocery store that carries president's choice items.

[00:33:40] If you know what I mean,

[00:33:41] Sonia: Okay, I ordered them. and I will say, for an eight pack, cheaper than some of the, the other mocktails we've tried. So you're picking the dry secco, though, if you had to, out of the two, and I'm

[00:33:55] Kathleen: uh, for sure, just because I'm a love, like, I love Prosecco. And so I'm [00:34:00] definitely, I can't, I get to have Prosecco ish again without the alcohol. It's very good.

[00:34:04] Sonia: okay, I'm picking the bubbly rosé. So I guess groovy is groovy! Woohoo!

[00:34:15] Kathleen: So good.

[00:34:16] Thank you so much for listening to Sisters in Sobriety, and we will see you next week.