[00:00:00] Sonia: Hi, we're Kathleen and Sonia, and you're listening to Sisters in Sobriety. Thanks for being here. I'm Sonia, and I'm with my sister in sobriety, actually, my sister in law, Kathleen. Kathleen, how are you doing today?
[00:00:12] Kathleen: I am good. I'm feeling good. How are you doing?
[00:00:16] Sonia: I'm good. I babysat your daughter, my niece, this weekend, and I took her to Starbucks and got her a brownie, and then I gave her pizza for breakfast Sunday morning, so.
[00:00:27] Kathleen: Yes, she loves her time with Auntie Sonia. And then when I came home, I asked her what she wanted for dinner and she said, Mama, I want a big salad. So I think that speaks to how her time with you was, her fun Auntie Sonia.
[00:00:43] Sonia: technique worked. I'm happy. I'm happy I was able to do that for you. Um, so today we are talking about Dry January, which really I feel like has gained momentum in the last few years. And it's about abstaining from alcohol for the first month of the year because you indulge too much over the [00:01:00] holidays.
[00:01:01] Kathleen: Yeah, and whether you're participating in Dry January for the first time or considering it for the future or just curious about the benefits of Dry January, today we're going to offer some insight and support. So grab a cup of tea, find a cozy spot and join us as we navigate the waters of Dry January together. Sonia, who could benefit from Dry January?
[00:01:25] Sonia: I think anyone can benefit from a month without alcohol. I feel like there's so many studies that have come out recently that there is no amount of alcohol that provides a health benefit. So I think taking a break from alcohol is a great idea for everyone. We're not, we're not saying like a glass of red wine a day anymore for health.
[00:01:44] And so I think it's not just for people who think they have a problem. or even feel like they indulge too much over the holidays. you just can challenge yourself to see if you can abstain for a month. And also for people who want to use it as a springboard for a longer period of abstinence, like [00:02:00] 60, 90 days.
[00:02:01] Kathleen: Yeah, I agree. I mean, really, the evidence, the research has come out, and I know quite a few countries, at least in Canada, too, have really recommended no amount of alcohol is, is healthy for someone to, to consume, so dry January is a great A great way for someone to dip their toe in the water, to either reduce their alcohol consumption or to stop altogether.
[00:02:25] What, what are some resources or strategies people can use and get in place before starting dry January?
[00:02:33] Sonia: I think one is, like when, when people are on a diet and they remove the junk food, I think that you can remove alcohol if you can from your house. that can help just not having that visual cue. and then also I think get alcohol free alternatives. We love mocktails. And so, learn to make a mocktail you really like.
[00:02:52] And I think that for some people will just. fill that gap of having a drink. and I think plan other activities, but [00:03:00] be realistic. So January probably isn't the best time to start training for a marathon outside. And you may not follow through with something like that. So I think.
[00:03:09] be realistic about the activities you're planning. I think there are so many support groups for people that are sober curious. So if you're doing something like dry January, maybe join another group of people that are doing that also. So you can talk about, what you're struggling with. And I think too, you'll see you have a little bit more free time when you're not drinking.
[00:03:30] So Discover some hobbies that you were thinking about, before dry January. And finally, maybe read that book that's been sitting there on your nightstand for like a year. I focus, though, a little bit more on external, but how should people go about starting the new year without alcohol from a more internal perspective?
[00:03:51] Kathleen: Well, I think firstly, you know, reflect on what your motivation is. Is it to reduce your alcohol consumption? Is it [00:04:00] to, explore a period of abstinence? Is it because you feel like you might have problematic drinking? So I think reflect on what your motivation is and set clear goals. So is your goal to be completely abstinent for the whole month?
[00:04:14] Is it just to reduce the amount of alcohol you're consuming? And I think, setting those goals is your dry January up the last day of January. Are you going to be extending that? so I think just being really clear on that and then preparing mentally, you know There might be challenges if you have events planned and there there could be societal pressure or even cravings So mentally preparing and planning for those moments just can make them more manageable You know seeking support dry.
[00:04:44] January is And I think it's, it's, it's good in the sense that there are so many people who are doing it. So there's no lack of support and, online communities or groups who are also participating in dry January, but it might also be something that you can do with your [00:05:00] family or friends.
[00:05:04] Um, I think it's such an amazing time to reflect and learn about your relationship with alcohol and even for people who don't feel that they're drinking is problematic, I think you can learn a lot like maybe there are times of the day that you just Um, you know, the same way every day or every other day or every week and just understanding and reflecting on that can be helpful.
[00:05:28] Sonia: Yeah, so what questions do you think people should be asking themselves during a period like dry January, a period of abstinence, if that's what they decide to do?
[00:05:36] Kathleen: I think that reflection is so important during dry January. Otherwise, it's just, you know, the goal is I'm not drinking for the month of January, but what, what can you learn from that and where, what opportunities for growth are there. So, you know, what triggers your desire to drink? That's a huge one. And I think, Also recognizing how do you feel physically and mentally [00:06:00] without alcohol?
[00:06:01] It can be helpful to keep a journal and you know when you notice those triggers writing them down Oh, I really feel like I want to drink right now. What's going on? What environment am I in? Who am I with? What am I doing? and then making a list of You know how you feel physically and mentally without alcohol. What do you think people should be mindful of during dry january?
[00:06:23] Sonia: Yeah, I'm so focused on triggers, like you were saying, and I think that especially for people who are maybe thinking they might have a problem, I think triggers are really important. So, are you being triggered to drink and use alcohol as a crutch for certain emotions? times a day. are you triggered to drink socially?
[00:06:43] Is that a social anxiety issue? Are you triggered to drink after work? or are you never triggered? Are you like, this is pretty easy. And I think that sometimes your answer is sort of in those. so Kathleen, did you ever try a period of abstinence?
[00:06:58] Kathleen: Yeah, it wasn't dry [00:07:00] January, but definitely there were times that I would go for a month or two without using alcohol or drugs. And when I was married to your brother, I actually went for four years without alcohol. so that was my longest period of abstinence.
[00:07:15] Sonia: Wow. So I was never able to do a period of abstinence. So I'm so curious about this experience.
[00:07:24] Kathleen: Well, I would often fall into this New Year's fervor of, you know, to cut something out of my life. but I had this weird habit. I don't, I don't love January 1st for my setting of goals. I always, I always just want to start whenever I think of them, so I would start either in December, or I would suddenly cut something out, in a different time of the year, and this, this was anything from, like, sugar, to shopping, to drugs, and alcohol, and I'd just, you know, be like, that's it, I'm cutting it out.
[00:07:53] I was really, really an all or nothing person, which isn't, isn't always good. And I remember going [00:08:00] about 8 weeks with, without alcohol and drugs in my late 20s, but for me it was due to health reasons. I just did not feel good, my body was feeling really, really run down, and I was getting sick a lot, like just colds and flus.
[00:08:16] And so I did a cleanse, and then it prompted me to stop using. any and all substances and it wasn't easy. I was definitely white knuckling it at the beginning partly because I cut out Alcohol drugs and sugar and sugar is a really hard one for me And I had a really hard time thinking of anything else.
[00:08:35] Like I just wanted to have a drink or To do drugs, or to eat sugar, but oh my god, did I feel amazing? did I go back to everything? Yeah, I did go back to it. And, I swung completely the other way. So, I went back to it. You know, in a major way,
[00:08:54] Sonia: Wow. So when I listened to your story, it definitely seems like you had trouble doing a period of abstinence. you did [00:09:00] like eight weeks, you did four years, but what would really make you go back? Was it just this constant, craving? Was it a trigger? What was it?
[00:09:09] Kathleen: you know, I think for drugs it was environmental, like an environmental trigger So if I was around certain people Doing different thingsthat was really what my trigger was and then alcohol would usually follow suit in that area I think stress like that is a big deal for me. So when I'm stressed out I tend to Crave things that don't necessarily fuel my body.
[00:09:35] No, it's no longer drugs. I don't crave that anymore But I do crave sugar when I'm stressed and it's something I I try to not have as much of
[00:09:45] Sonia: Did you go into though, these periods thinking like, I'm never going to drink again, or I'm never going to do drugs again, or were you always aware that they were challenges or that they were like temporary?
[00:09:57] Kathleen: so I think that [00:10:00] as I recall you know for drugs and alcohol it was really like Temporary more like a challenge and it wasn't until I got sober from drugs and I was away for a month and I really Felt how good my body felt and I really knew at that point. I didn't want to live that kind of life I was living anymore and I wanted to feel better.
[00:10:23] That was my like i'm done And actually after that it wasn't so hard for me to be sober from drugs Alcohol was a bit of a different story. So while I think some of my drinking was problematic, it wasn't definitely at the level it was for you. I don't drink anymore. That's more for health reasons and also because I'm sober from drugs.
[00:10:47] So, that was a bit more difficult for me in the sense that it's just everywhere in social situations. So, I stopped drinking for four years when I was with your brother, and then when I was no [00:11:00] longer with him, all of the sudden, you know, I was I was dating someone who had a few drinks, and I would be out in social situations, and I would have a few drinks, and then it wasn't until all that settled that I was like, no, this isn't what I want for my life.
[00:11:16] Sonia: Yeah, that makes sense. What, what are the possible outcomes you think that people experience in dry January? what do they come out of those 30 days with?
[00:11:25] Kathleen: I think, I think there can be positive and negative outcomes. You know positive they can learn about their relationship with alcohol. They can form a community They might see that their drinking might be problematic and they feel good without it and it could lead to a longer period of abstinence But on the negative side of things, I think if someone doesn't have any tools And any strategies or plans they can also swing the other way like I did, meaning that I wasn't in January, but let's say I went for [00:12:00] a month, you know, without drugs and alcohol, and then I just binged big time when, when I got back on into it,
[00:12:07] Sonia: that idea that if I started to drink again after a period of abstinence, in my mind it would be like an epic return, like it would be more than I had been drinking previously, so I get that.
[00:12:21] Kathleen: Yeah, for sure. I bring it back to sugar, even though it's not the same thing, but, from a mental health perspective, when you often abstain from something, it can also trigger you to go hard the other way. If, if you don't have, The tools and so you know more recently and I think you've known like I've tried to cut out sugar and then when I Fall back into sugar.
[00:12:46] I binge hard on it. And so It's like what are the tools that you have in place? so you can recognize When your triggers are coming up when you can recognize when your cravings are there and how do [00:13:00] you deal with them? What are some of the positive things people can look forward to during a month of abstinence?
[00:13:05] Sonia: I think that what I hear from people and also experienced myself probably during the first 30 days was that your sleep can improve dramatically. So for some people it's a little tougher, for me it was a little tougher at the beginning the first week to fall asleep because I was falling asleep without a call.
[00:13:22] But once I started sleeping, I would wake up so refreshed that I still think about it some mornings when I wake up. I still think it's amazing. I think you can have weight loss. Alcohol has a lot of calories in it. I think your skin can improve. Alcohol is really dehydrating. and I think overall your relationships can improve.
[00:13:44] You have more energy, more free time. So, there are so many positives I think that people experience in those first 30 days.
[00:13:55] Kathleen: How do you look at the experiences people have during dry January?
[00:13:59] Sonia: I [00:14:00] look at it, you know, there's a spectrum. there are people that it's really not a challenge at all. And some people just can't even get through the 30 days. They, they realize it's just too difficult. people realize that alcohol is too intertwined in their life and their social life to kind of separate it out. And so I think that anything that hints that you're using alcohol as a crutch, like socially or for stress, it's a sign to dig a little bit deeper.
[00:14:26] Sonia: I think having a few moderate cravings is normal, especially in situations where you would normally have a drink. It's a habit, and so it's difficult to break, just because you have some association. So if you walk into a bar and you smell, alcohol, you may be kind of tempted to drink. And so, You know, I think that's pretty normal.
[00:14:44] So Kathleen, we know it was tough for you to get sober, but what did you do after attempts at abstinence and how long did it really take you to stop using drugs? what did you learn from each of those attempts?
[00:14:56] Kathleen: it wasn't that tough for me to get sober from drugs, and I'm, I'm sorry to [00:15:00] disappoint some of our listeners who struggle, but I think, You know, once I did have that period of abstinence and I was away, so I was away from the environmental triggers and I was really like in my It's sort of quote unquote, rehab in Mexico wasn't quite rehab, but you know, I didn't, I felt so good that nothing would have taken me back to using drugs again.
[00:15:27] Alcohol was a little bit different for me. It was a little bit harder for me to. and so I'm going to kind of stop in that sense because just because of the social aspect. So for me, it was really more about how I felt. I felt awful when I was using drugs and alcohol. my body didn't feel good. I didn't feel like I could do the things I wanted to do.
[00:15:50] And for me, it was a period of kind of forced abstinence in a sense, that showed me what it would be like to be gay. Live without drugs. And that's [00:16:00] what really converted me. And I think that dry January can absolutely do that. I felt amazing physically, but I, I felt also like I wasn't changing or growing when I was doing the other shorter periods of abstinence.
[00:16:16] And I think that's why I ended up going back to it. And it wasn't until that really like forced time of abstinence that I felt. The true benefits of it.
[00:16:27] Sonia: So you think there is some sort of like other component than physical? So if you can go a month without drinking, does that mean you don't have a problem? Or Even in the reverse, if you can't go a month without drinking, does that mean you do have a problem?
[00:16:41] Kathleen: Well, let's break this down. I mean if you can't go a month without drinking what's happening? So, are you feeling intense cravings for it? do you have physical symptoms? do you have the shakes? if you can't go, a month without drinking and you've got lots of [00:17:00] triggers and your cravings, then sure, there's some problematic drinking there.
[00:17:05] That being said, can someone who's a problematic drinker go for, A month and then, you know, start drinking again. Absolutely. Yes. I think they can. So I for sure went for a month without drugs and, I had a drug problem, like, you know, there was no way around it. what do you think Sonia, from a, as a, from a recovery coach standpoint?
[00:17:30] Sonia: Yeah, I, I work with a lot of people that their, their drinking doesn't follow the pattern minded, right, which was daily drinking. Some people have a real issue with binge drinking or some people very easily can go a week or two or three. and then. You know drink really heavily and it's problematic. it's interesting.
[00:17:51] I've noticed most people have a Period of time they can go and then when they start reaching that outer limit They know they're gonna drink so some people [00:18:00] can get to like 90 days and they always start drinking around that point So yeah, I think that it varies so much. I think that there are so many different Unhealthy patterns to drinking.
[00:18:13] Kathleen: So let's say someone's doing dry January and then they realize that they may have an issue with alcohol. What, what should they do? What's your recommendation?
[00:18:23] Sonia: Yeah,I think first, you figure out is it safe for you to talk to your doctor? Is it safe for you to abstain from alcohol without significant withdrawals? and if it would be beneficial to be on any medication for cravings. So, there is medical management of alcohol use disorder now.
[00:18:40] I think that once you get to 30 days, you should start thinking about 90. I think 90 is when your brain chemicals sort of start to stabilize. and I, so I always tell people like, why don't you try another 30? Why don't you try another 30 until they get to 90?
[00:18:56] feel like that's when they really start to feel good. [00:19:00] and I think, yeah, come up with a plan for triggers. There's so many triggers that are unexpected to people, places, emotions, time of day. Time of day was big for me. So just having As many plans for those triggers is great.you can also join a group, talk about things, things you're wondering about that you kind of haven't experienced before.
[00:19:24] for me, it's just always really nice to hear what other people are going through. It sort of puts what I'm going through in perspective.
[00:19:32] Kathleen: just love hearing what other people are experiencing and I think, um, not necessarily that you compare yourself, but you hear the story and some things will resonate and some things won't, but I think it's just super helpful to be able to talk about these kind of new things that you're experiencing
[00:19:47] Sonia: What do you think people should do if they're concerned about their relationship with alcohol after a dry January type challenge?
[00:19:54] Kathleen: I mean, I think that they should do some research about it And I also think that they should come [00:20:00] to a group like yours I just want to say Sonia never tells me to plug her
[00:20:03] company, but I just think it's such a good resource like You if someone were to show up to one of your meetings or make a coaching appointment with you I think you would ask the right questions I think yeah, you know Going to see your doctor.
[00:20:16] If you have a therapist broaching it with your therapist, if you have any, intentionally sober friends, I also think that that might be a good idea, but I just want to caution that everyone's drinking, if it's problematic, can look different. So like you said, Sonia, you were a daily drinker. I was not a daily drinker.
[00:20:38] like our, our alcohol or drug use might look different from the next person. So if you go to a friend who's sober and they're like, what? No, you're fine. You don't drink every day or whatever. It doesn't necessarily mean you don't have an issue. So I think, talking to a professional first and foremost, and doing a bit of research and see, see what your next steps might be.[00:21:00] Sonia, we are wrapping up our episode today on Dry January. what resonated with you the most?
[00:21:07] Sonia: I think what resonated with me was that reflection piece. I think that when I, was getting sober, I was just so focused on abstinence and not drinking that I really didn't reflect. I really didn't think about, things like triggers.
[00:21:24] I was just thinking, you know, I'm drinking every day and I need to stop, but I wasn't being very mindful of what was going on, or paying attention to what was going on in my body. what about you? What resonated with you?
[00:21:36] Kathleen: You know, I think that what resonated with me is Dry January can just, it can be the gateway to sobriety in many cases, and it also doesn't have to be January. So, I think that it's helpful to So just test yourself and see, but I like dry January in the sense that there are many people doing it.
[00:21:56] And so you can have that instant community. I think that's [00:22:00] what resonated with me the most.
[00:22:01] Sonia: so before we wrap this week's episode, we want to talk mocktails.
[00:22:06] Alright, Kathleen, so our first mocktail is the St. James 101 Bitter Aperitif Spritz.
[00:22:18] Kathleen: Okay, I'm just opening this. Oh my god. Hard to open.
[00:22:29] Okay. Have you had this one
[00:22:32] Sonia: I've had them all.
[00:22:34] All right, Kathleen. You've just had your first sip of the St. James.
[00:22:38] Kathleen: I'm smelling it. It's orangey. Mmm, I like the smell of it. Okay, now I'm taking Oh, wait. You're drinking from the bottle. Okay, I poured it into a glass.
[00:22:49] Sonia: Yeah, I'm drinking from the bottle.
[00:22:51] Kathleen: Oh no.
[00:22:52] Sonia: just wait. Keep drinking it. I get what you're saying. It is bitter. I mean, they literally call it bitter [00:23:00] aperitif spritz.
[00:23:01] Kathleen: the second sip is better.
[00:23:02] Sonia: It is better.
[00:23:03] Kathleen: That is weird. Yeah Yeah,
[00:23:06] Sonia: I don't know if your taste buds adjust to the bitterness, but okay. You want to describe what you, the flavors that you're Experiencing?
[00:23:18] Kathleen: I mean it is like an aperitif like a bitters it tastes like I mean it doesn't taste like there's alcohol in it, obviously, but there's the orange the first taste I pursed my lips for sure and was like But this one the second sips and on I like this a lot. Actually. I like this a lot
[00:23:36] Sonia: I know, it is a, it really is a complex
[00:23:41] Kathleen: It is it's good
[00:23:43] Sonia: Yeah, I feel like it's something you would get in like a cute glass at a restaurant and like, I don't know, maybe like Aperol Spritz vibes.
[00:23:53] Kathleen: It's definitely an apparel spritz vibe. I think it would be so nice in like a I don't know what they're called, but like the low [00:24:00] tumbler with like a little sprig of rosemary and Ice, this is yum. I like this. This is definitely mocktail vibes for me This is not like a fizzy juice. This is definite mocktail vibes.
[00:24:13] I am down with this one. I like it
[00:24:15] Sonia: Before we continue to talk about it, let's recap that both of us did not like the initial sip,
[00:24:22] Kathleen: No,
[00:24:22] Sonia: But both of us liked it upon second sip. And we find it really complex.
[00:24:28] would you consider this a refreshing mocktail?
[00:24:33] Kathleen: I wouldn't I wouldn't say it's a refreshing mocktail in the sense that I don't sip it and go After it's not that kind of refreshing. I think it's like a proper mocktail. I mean I would have this Before dinner This is like a it's like a cocktail but not a mocktail.
[00:24:50] It feels like that. Don't you think it feels like that?
[00:24:53] Sonia: Yeah, I feel like it's something I would order like, with appetizers or [00:25:00] just on its own. Um, I don't know if it's necessarily a dinner drink. because it does kind of have that bitterness, but I would order this if I were at a bar and it was an option.
[00:25:12] Kathleen: I would also order this at a bar. Look, they have on the label, it looks like they have a picture of rosemary and mint.
[00:25:21] Sonia: Yeah, it
[00:25:23] Kathleen: wonder, is there rosemary and mint in it, or is it just, that's what they're telling you to pair it with? Nope, there isn't rosemary and mint, but it is good. I can see it paired with mint for the summer, and definitely rosemary for the colder months.
[00:25:39] Sonia: Yeah, there's definitely an herbal undertone. Of it. but I don't think we're clear on what it is. What do you think, about recommending it? On a scale of 1 to 10, how likely are you to recommend this?
[00:25:55] Kathleen: I would recommend it as an eight or nine, because, minus the first [00:26:00] sip, the first sip is like an assault to the senses, but then second sip and beyond, so good. And definitely a proper mocktail.
[00:26:10] Sonia: I'm, I'm
[00:26:11] loving it. Yeah, I, I'm a huge fan. I think if I could tell the makers, St. James, one thing, it's like maybe put a message, like sip twice,before. making a final decision.
[00:26:25] Kathleen: hmm. For sure. It's good, though. I like it.
[00:26:29] Sonia: So I have tried the next one. What I'm most curious about the Hyo peach mango. And what's interesting about this one is that it has natural nootropics and adaptogens. So it's sort of marketed as something that will Relax you, and calm you down, stress relief. there is no evidence of this, but I am curious what you think [00:27:00] while we sip it.
[00:27:00] So, let's try the Hiyo Peach Mango.
[00:27:03] Kathleen: Okay. Ooh, definitely strong on the mango. Let me see. Oh! The fizz went right up my nose. Ooh, that hurt.
[00:27:25] Sonia: I'm drinking it out of the can, so it's saving me from that. Alright, what do you think about the first flavors?
[00:27:33] Kathleen: Mmm. Well, it's 6 percent juice, and I can see that it is. Like, it tastes really juicy. It's quite fizzy.
[00:27:42] Sonia: like the pineapple Haribo gummy.
[00:27:44] Kathleen: Oh, maybe. It doesn't, what is it? There's something in here. Oh, there's ashwagandha in here, cordyceps, mushrooms. The ginger, I don't taste so much. The turmeric, you can see it in the color. [00:28:00] Lion's mane, so lion's mane I think is what might be the calming.
[00:28:05] Sonia: I kind of feel like it's those, like, does, does ashwagandha have a taste? You know about things like this.
[00:28:11] Kathleen: I mean, I take ashwagandha in pill form sometimes, but yeah, there's a lot. There's green tea extract in here. I'm a big fan of green tea. I think it's mostly the mango. I did look at the, the can before, you know, we started recording and I thought it was interesting. Their, their tagline is feel the float. I feel like it's marketed towards people who are Sober because it basically says we crafted our mindful social tonics with organic adaptogens Natural nootropics and functional botanicals to celebrate life never wasted and then wasted is crossed out So I definitely think this is marketed towards people who are living a sober lifestyle.
[00:28:55] Um Yeah, it's good. It's like refreshing but
[00:28:59] Sonia: what do you think [00:29:00] about the, it says, this is a better than alcohol alternative made for those chasing a new feeling
[00:29:07] called the float. I am not sure I need to be chasing a new feeling with my beverage. What do
[00:29:15] Kathleen: yeah Well, yeah from a recovery standpoint like the the point is that we're not chasing A feeling They also say inspires more solace on the sofa more happy hours without hangovers more presence at parties and ultimately a happier healthier you I mean These are high, high expectations for a drink in a can.
[00:29:39] Sonia: Yeah. I kind of look at it as this is somewhere between
[00:29:42] a mocktail and almost like not an energy drink, but like some sort of like health drink.
[00:29:50] Kathleen: Yeah, I would say it's like a health drink for sure.
[00:29:53] Sonia: Yeah. Like between a kombucha and a and a mocktail. Is that what you kind of are thinking? [00:30:00] No.
[00:30:02] Kathleen: if you go to the health food store and you get some sort of tonic or whatever that's, you know, tastes good. Yeah, it's like that. I mean, what would you recommend it on a scale of one to ten?
[00:30:13] Sonia: I would recommend it, depending on what you're looking for, anywhere between, like, a 5 and an 8. So, if you're looking for something to accompany your meal, I think it's, like, a 5. If you're post workout, hanging out on the couch, I think it's an 8.
[00:30:29] Kathleen: Okay,
[00:30:30] Sonia: It doesn't fulfill, to me, it doesn't really fulfill The mocktail definition.
[00:30:38] Kathleen: I would agree with that. I would not call it a mocktail. You know, like the spritz is definitely a mocktail. I would call this a drink. This is a somewhat refreshing drink. I'm going to give it a five. I don't know if I would drink this, even though I love health, healthy tonics and things like that, but I, I don't, [00:31:00] I don't really love it that much to be honest.
[00:31:03] Sonia: Yeah, I'm with you.I think the winner today is the Sir James 101 spritz aperitif.
[00:31:10] Kathleen: Definitely and unexpectedly the winner. After the first sip, I would not have expected
[00:31:15] Sonia: And I think such a good choice for dry January for people that are really looking to
[00:31:21] replace that complex mocktail feel.
[00:31:24] Kathleen: for sure. This is a good choice for dry January. I'm loving it.
[00:31:28] Thank you for listening to Sisters in Sobriety and we'll see you next week when we talk about the unexpected effects of sobriety.