[00:00:00] sonia: Wait, wait, wait. Before we start, just want to make sure we're clear here. While this podcast talks about sobriety, mental health, and addiction, it is not meant to replace professional medical advice. All clear? All right, let's go then. Welcome to Sisters in Sobriety from Everbloom, the support community that helps women change their relationship with alcohol.
[00:00:30] kathleen: I'm Kathleen. And I'm Sonia. And we're ex sisters in law brought together in marriage and bonded through our sobriety
[00:00:37] sonia: journey. Join us as we talk sobriety, addiction, and everything in between. You're in for quite a ride. How
[00:00:50] are you doing today, Kathleen? I am
[00:00:53] kathleen: good. I would say it's busy times and winter is Here. How are you doing [00:01:00]
[00:01:00] sonia: good? I just got to Toronto yesterday and drove through what I call a blizzard in Rochester. So today we're talking about sobriety support and there are so many support systems and communities for people that are sober.
[00:01:14] and sober curious. And I always say there's no one size fits all approach and that you may need different types of support at different times in your journeys. And so we'll talk a little bit about 12 step programs, um, and more innovative approaches like online recovery communities, also, um, one on one coaching and therapy.
[00:01:34] kathleen: And today we'll be sharing the final part of our personal story. We've covered quite a bit of our journey together, and we've told you about our youth, how we both became sober, and how we supported each other through thick and thin. So today, we get on to the final chapter in our journey together, and we'll come back full circle.
[00:01:53] sonia: Back to present time. I'm excited about this.
[00:01:56] kathleen: Me too. Stick around. It's going to be a
[00:01:58] sonia: good one.[00:02:00]
[00:02:05] kathleen: To begin with, let's ask this question more broadly. Sonia, what can a sobriety support system
[00:02:11] sonia: look like? It can look like anything, right? And so I think it changes over time, like I was saying. But also, yeah, there's different approaches. And one, you know, type of sobriety support is family and friends. So it doesn't have to be always a formal type of support.
[00:02:29] It really is whatever is helping you is your sobriety support
[00:02:32] kathleen: system. I agree with that because I think support looks like support just based on who the individual is. So yes, like friends, family, support groups, obviously, 12 step support groups. So there's all sorts of different supports people can get.
[00:02:49] Sonia, what type of support systems helped you when you got sober?
[00:02:53] sonia: So at the beginning, I did not even seek out any sort of help. I think that [00:03:00] partly I was, you know, really ashamed. I worked in healthcare, and so I was afraid of disclosing, essentially, that I had a substance abuse issue. And then, so I stuck to things that I could sort of do in private, like Quitlet and podcasts.
[00:03:17] And I also was super lucky because I had my brother
[00:03:21] kathleen: who was sober. It seems like for you, sobriety and community are tied together. And actually, today we're going to pick up our backstory at a turn in your life where finding support became really crucial to help you stay sober. Yeah, for
[00:03:35] sonia: sure. And I think it was the same for you, right?
[00:03:37] After a lot of things changed and you were looking for support and community in different places.
[00:03:48] kathleen: I became a full time Single mom, about two weeks before our first lockdown here in Ontario. I did not know what I was going to [00:04:00] do. I went through periods of being terrified. And then also periods of knowing, well, I just, I have to do this, but I will say that the lockdown and the pandemic ended up being such a gift for my daughter and I, because we were both in such deep grief.
[00:04:22] And so the pandemic and the lockdown. created this unintended cocoon for us where we healed together and we really became very, very close. And I think that I started to have a greater understanding of myself during that time and then also of others and just a deep empathy for other people. And it was really then that the idea of Potentially becoming a therapist one day started to slowly, slowly take form in my, [00:05:00] my mind.
[00:05:05] When I first got divorced, I was pretty vocal about it on social media and the strange things started to happen. People from all over the world started reaching out to me and wanting to talk to me about how I got through it. And sort of at the same time, I had a good friend who was a life coach and she.
[00:05:27] Suggested maybe I take some intensive training around life coaching. So I did that and then the pandemic hit, but as things started to settle, I went for more training and I started gaining clients and I wanted to go deeper with my clients, but it wasn't ethical for me to do so without being a psychotherapist.
[00:05:49] And so I made a decision, I'm going to become a therapist. So the next point was. Now I have to get my master's and I did and then it was kind of [00:06:00] figuring it out from there How will I live financially? What about my full time job and I thought I would be climbing a small mountain To do my master's and start a psychotherapy practice.
[00:06:11] And in fact, it was Everest So it was a really big transition and it was a lot more work than I thought it would be But it was definitely worth it
[00:06:23] sonia: when I got sober. My life was really calm waters. Like I had sold a business. I was like working nine to five. We were taking vacations. And so it was very calm and not easy by any means to stay sober. But it was a whole different life. And I was doing everything I could. I was taking classes. I was trying to figure out like what my passion was.
[00:06:45] I was volunteering in prisons. I was volunteering with like victims of sex trafficking. I was like The chair of the board of a nonprofit. And I really want to give back to the sober community. And as I sort of went on with that, as the years passed, I realized, [00:07:00] I don't think my husband is thrilled with how I'm spending my time.
[00:07:04] And then he started investing in crypto. And so, after the crypto market crashed, he had a bit of a breakdown. And between when it happened and when he left was two weeks, and I never saw him again. At some point, I think within the first couple weeks, realized that my sobriety led to the end of the relationship.
[00:07:24] I was a different person before. I was so much more ambitious about, like, financially profitable things. And he said, you're just happy with too little. And so yeah, it was really difficult. I really thought I was prepared for a lot of different scenarios. This was not one of them. And so I started going to meetings every day to hear how other people were struggling or how well they were doing.
[00:07:50] And I think I came out with the, from those meetings being like, you are not going to give this guy your sobriety. And so life [00:08:00] was like that for many, many, many weeks. Kathleen noticed that I was not doing well, and so she asked me to come back to Toronto, and I was a disaster. And this was one of the first times in my life I had to say, like, I failed, and my life is really screwed up, and I have no idea where I'm gonna be in six months, and she was one of the only people I could say that to.
[00:08:26] And she was so comforting and so positive that this was going to be the greatest thing that ever happened to me. And, and since that, I've told her, I tell her all the time and it makes her cry. I'm like, you saved my life. She really
[00:08:43] kathleen: did. I was really with Sonia through the whole deterioration of her marriage.
[00:08:50] And so I remember when she initially called me to be like, Um, something's weird. And I was like, no, like it's not anything. And it wasn't [00:09:00] until I actually went to see her and then also. Sat down with her husband at the time to talk to him was like, oh shit. There's a problem here and I was with her really every step of the way I mean, I I think we got really close during that time I knew it was a bad day or if it was a good day And I also knew because of the work I had been doing with people going through divorce as a coach at that time What this stage was like and it is raw and awful and you're ripped open and you just want to know when the pain is going to end and so I knew a lot about what she was going through and, you know, It is so important to have community and to have support when you're going through something like that because to do it alone is just more excruciating.
[00:09:56] I'm so happy that I was able to be a [00:10:00] support for her during that time.
[00:10:07] As we just heard, your divorce, Sonia, was a trying time in your sobriety journey. And to face the situation, you went to support groups and tried to find community. How did this help you in your day to day?
[00:10:19] sonia: It helped in so many ways. I think that a big part for me always of sobriety was hearing other people's stories.
[00:10:29] And so that's why I listened to so much Quitlet. Like, I loved hearing stories, especially of like other women that were like my age, and the story of how their drinking progressed, and then how they finally realized it was a problem, and how they got through. sober. And so I think in that way, any support group would have worked for that.
[00:10:47] Right. And so I think during that time, I would go a couple of times a day to a meeting. Those hours were like just these moments where I could just like feel empathy for the other people in the room and also be [00:11:00] so, so grateful for the amount of sobriety I had. And so it really reminded me like. I wasn't going to drink over the divorce.
[00:11:09] Like it wasn't worth it. And let's be honest, like guy, not worth it.
[00:11:14] kathleen: I remember you saying that. And I also remember that you were very regimented about going, like you had your group and you were going and. I think that support and sobriety is hugely important and can take different forms over different times of the sobriety journey, so can you speak more to that?
[00:11:37] sonia: think early in sobriety, you really just need that safe space, and so a support group should really just provide you this, like, safe, Non judgmental space where you can sort of explore those ideas like so you can say out loud like I have a wedding next week What am I gonna do? So I think it's that and sharing those experiences So we'll have in our group [00:12:00] someone come on and be like I went to a wedding and didn't drink and it's like yes like success.
[00:12:04] How did you do that? And then I think for me, and I did this last night in a group, I asked people, I said, I'm looking for some more coping mechanisms for the holidays. And I think that's like one of the best things that you can get out of a group is listening to what other people are doing to deal with their triggers and their cravings.
[00:12:24] And then finally, we'll talk about this a little bit more later, but accountability. And so I felt this sense of accountability of the groups on a really hard day where I'm like, nobody would know if I had a drink. It really keeps me.
[00:12:39] kathleen: Sober. So when you're talking about different, like different supports, what, what kind of different supports are available?
[00:12:47] sonia: There's so many. So I think the one that we're most familiar with is, um, a 12 step like AA, but there is a lot of rigidity in those groups. And if you slip, you go back to day one and that's sort of [00:13:00] it. the opposite of how I feel about things. And so, you know, then there's online options, which vary. I've been to groups from like 20 to like 200 people and the bigger the group, there's less conversation.
[00:13:13] Um, and so it's really a passive kind of group where you're like listening to a podcast. And then there's what I do also is one on one coaching, which is really helpful. So you. Get really specific about goals and tools to achieve the goals and then get a plan to achieve that and then More interesting is medically assisted treatment So that's something you can always talk to your family doctor about and then I'm gonna leave the rest to you, which is therapy CBT somatic therapy and I think you are the expert on that So if you could talk about the role of those Therapies, that would be amazing.
[00:13:53] kathleen: Yeah, for sure. You know, sometimes I get clients who'll say, well, what's the difference between therapy and coaching? And [00:14:00] coaching, you know, like you spoke to, is really about helping develop those specific goals and developing tools to achieve them. And that can absolutely be done in therapy too. Therapy kind of addresses underlying emotional, psychological, and social factors that may lead to someone having a substance.
[00:14:20] use disorder. So one of the things I do a lot of in therapy and I focus on mostly relationships, but is really improving emotional regulation. Another piece in terms of therapy is often if someone has substance use disorder, there may be another co occurring disorder. So in my case, I have ADHD. And I also had substance use disorder.
[00:14:45] So I go to therapy myself and, um, to kind of help manage my symptoms of ADHD, for example. So there's a bunch of different therapies. There's many different modalities. Cognitive behavior therapy is [00:15:00] what many people have heard of. I practice a lot of acceptance and commitment therapy, which derived once upon a time from CBT.
[00:15:09] Instead of replacing and changing the negative thought patterns, it really looks at how you can allow and make space for negative emotions and continue to live with those negative emotions and how do you cope with them. But there are a ton of other therapies. I'm just giving a really quick snapshot, but yes, you know.
[00:15:33] Therapy and its modalities are generally evidence based, scientifically based, and so have scientific rigor behind them in terms of treating alcohol addiction.
[00:15:46] sonia: So really different than the other forms. So how do you integrate other forms of support? and other practices with therapy.
[00:15:55] kathleen: So I think that support groups create a great system of [00:16:00] support.
[00:16:00] And I think it's really helpful that people know they're not alone, that they can speak to other people who are maybe not going through the exact same thing, but can relate to what they're, they're going through. And I think coping strategies are often learned in groups. I mean, you just mentioned, you know, that you were talking to your group last night and talking more about what are your coping strategies for the holidays.
[00:16:23] I think having a therapist or a specialized individual to help with substance use disorder is always helpful and can be used alongside with group supports. So I think there's, there's many synergies that can take place. So, Sonia, what advice would you give to listeners looking for a group?
[00:16:44] sonia: I think joining any group is gonna be a little uncomfortable, right?
[00:16:49] Where you have to share sort of your deepest, darkest things. So being uncomfortable is not a sign you're in the wrong group, necessarily. And I think, You know, the thing you should really be [00:17:00] looking for is that the message resonates with you and that you feel like aligned with that. I think you need to think about the format and do you need a in person component?
[00:17:10] Do you want to be active or passive? Are you trying to create? Long term connections, or are you just sort of trying to deal with this acute thing and get out? Do you want to be at a meeting where there's no cross talk, where you don't give feedback to each other? And at different times you want different things.
[00:17:27] When we were talking about during the divorce, I wanted to be passive. There's some practical issues, and then there's some major kind of conceptual issues that you have to Consider when you're joining a group.
[00:17:39] kathleen: So what are some of the supports that you specifically
[00:17:41] sonia: tried? Yeah, so quit lit is like quit literature.
[00:17:45] And so any sort of books about People like they're kind of like memoirs about quitting drinking and so there's a lot of really good ones out there There's like quit like a woman holly whitaker. There's just so many good carolyn knapp. Like there's some really [00:18:00] good Books, and I think they're really honest representations of of that journey to sorority.
[00:18:07] And so, I've tried AA. I've gone to a few different meetings in a few different places. And they vary a lot based on where you are. And then, you know, what really works for me is being around a group of like minded people. And honestly, like talking to you. Right. It calms me down. And I think, okay, she gets it.
[00:18:27] She gets what I'm going through. And I think that's the feeling that you're looking
[00:18:30] kathleen: for. Yeah, that makes sense. And you know, I think no matter how long it takes you to find the right support, doing the work will always have a positive impact in your life. Like for you, for example, it's that whole process of going to different supports and groups that finally gave you the idea to start Everbloom.
[00:18:50] And that was a huge turning point in your career.
[00:18:53] sonia: Yeah, this is actually where we left on our story. So let's go back and dive back in pretty[00:19:00]
[00:19:06] quickly After my ex husband and I separated I realized my sobriety was a lot more tenuous than I thought I had support with my family, but Specifically, sobriety support, I didn't have in the sense that I didn't have my brother anymore. And I had moved around a lot in the previous five, six years. And so I didn't have sort of that in person sobriety community.
[00:19:32] And it was interesting because it was like, I knew that that was the void. Like, I knew that I didn't need, I knew I didn't need to go to a bar and have a drink. I needed to talk about why I felt like drinking. And so I think I remember. talking to Kathleen about how I'd been looking for a recovery group.
[00:19:51] I remember just not like complaining, but being like, where is a group where I know the people? Because I didn't want to get up at every meeting [00:20:00] and say, and so my husband left and I didn't want to have to go through that story every time I wanted to be able to like build on it. Like I could with my family and then she's like, I think you have something.
[00:20:16] kathleen: Sonia had been throwing around a few different ideas of things that she wanted to work on and she Shared with me the idea of ever bloom and I was like, that's it. That is an amazing idea I love that idea and I knew many other of my friends who were in recovery That was something that they couldn't find and so I was just like yeah, this is something This is really really something I
[00:20:42] sonia: had been retired for a few years.
[00:20:44] I was on the board of non profits. I was volunteering a lot and I really loved that part of my life. I just didn't have a professional purpose anymore. So, uh, Kathleen actually suggested, she said, you know what? I have a friend who's a recovery coach. Let me text [00:21:00] her and see what And so I was like, this is a good, this will be a step, right?
[00:21:04] Like this having kind of getting a schedule will be a step. And it worked at the time. It really just focused me in a way that I didn't really know I needed. And so, um, it took a couple of months to become a recovery coach. And then I would still keep thinking about like the idea of ever bloom. Something I knew how to do was, was how to make a business plan deck.
[00:21:26] And so I thought, okay, that's a good step, right? To kind of get my ideas together. And so I finished the deck and then I'm sitting there, I'm certified recovery coach. I have a deck and I think I need to take the next step, but I'm still sort of like, Stuck a little bit like in this emotional mud. And so I think I'm gonna apply to a business accelerator because I I need a community, right?
[00:21:52] And so it was great. It was looking back. It was the best decision I made was to get that support and [00:22:00] I still have that community. I was like, co working with them yesterday. And so that community just really gave me that accountability, which is the same thing I think that sobriety support groups do.
[00:22:11] They give you that accountability.
[00:22:18] Really, the point of Everbloom is for it to be a curated community and for people to have, sort of be like minded. And so it settled on, you know, a community for women and And it came from the feedback I was getting from the women saying, I love having a group of women I can talk to about this because my struggle is a little bit different.
[00:22:40] And I didn't expect the connection between the women in the groups to be so strong. And so I am, yeah, I have a tough time saying I'm proud of something, but I think I am really proud. My goal was if I can help one person figure out what they want their relationship to be. with alcohol to be or change their [00:23:00] relationship.
[00:23:00] If I can provide community for people, that is the goal. And so, yeah, I feel like I've gotten to that goal. I mean, I'm not done, but I feel like, yeah, I achieved that.
[00:23:13] kathleen: I am doing really, really well. I have my own practice, my own psychotherapy practice. I see mostly couples and people who are having relationship challenges. I work also with people who are going through grief. And it's busy. It's good. I love, love what I do. I've never loved what I do so much. You know, what I do on a Saturday night is I watch, I watch couples therapy videos on YouTube.
[00:23:46] Like who does that? It's because I'm really interested. And, um, I live a really full life. My daughter is amazing and I have a new partner now who I've been with [00:24:00] for about four years, which is hard to believe. And my relationship with Sonia, I feel like has really deepened and her and I are really steady.
[00:24:10] And I think we just know each other really well. Life is good. I think we've gotten stronger, which is, I can't even believe, but I guess that's what happens when you go through life and you, you stick together, you get stronger.
[00:24:31] sonia: So Kathleen, as we just heard, good therapy or coaching or really whatever you use to support your mental health. It's something that feels tailored to your needs and it can take time to get there. So how do you know if the support you're using is working for you or if you need to add something additional or find a new type of support altogether?
[00:24:53] kathleen: You know, I think one of the most important things knowing if the support is working for you is do you feel safe [00:25:00] and do you trust those around you in your support network? That's a huge one. Do you feel like your support system gives you consistent encouragement and positive reinforcement. Does it help motivate you?
[00:25:13] And does it help you with your recovery efforts? Like those are two really important things. I think the support should be pretty readily available when you need it. And this could be in the form of regular meetings and check ins or someone just being a phone call away. And this is also how therapists.
[00:25:31] And therapy can work really well with groups. I think there also needs to be understanding and empathy in your support network. So understanding the challenges of recovery and not having, you know, a critical stance on it or impatience around it. Respect for boundaries and You know, as with all supports, I also think there should be a feeling of personal growth and progress and recovery, you know, recovery as we've talked about does not mean they're not going to be slips, but are you [00:26:00] growing in your understanding of what's happening when you have a slip?
[00:26:04] And I also think one of the huge benefits of support systems. is to give people a sense of community and to sort of alleviate those feelings of isolation and loneliness. Like they're the only ones going through this. So I think that's a huge, huge component. How did you know if the group was working for you or not?
[00:26:27] sonia: I know if a group is working for me, if it feels like. talking to you. But if you don't have that sort of comparison, I think wherever you feel comfortable sharing and you feel heard and you're getting feedback and you, it's resonating with you. And for me specifically, I don't need to talk about alcohol.
[00:26:48] all the time. And I don't know if that's because I'm a little further along in the journey, but I need to still talk about my triggers. And so I think those are the types of conversations that I want to have [00:27:00] and not necessarily like, you know, in 95. I drank a bottle of vodka and then, you know, I crashed my car and blah, blah, blah.
[00:27:09] Like, that's not, it's, that doesn't help me as much. I think it does help some people to kind of relive and to like, figure out the narrative. But for me, I really want to talk about the things that are happening. Now, that are potential triggers for me.
[00:27:26] kathleen: I think that's great because I think then you're also being in the present time, in the present moment.
[00:27:31] And I'm not devaluing what you just said about people who kind of like, like to go back to 1995. But I do think there's such value in being like, what are my current triggers right now? Because I think they can change and I think they can change depending on what stage of life you're in. So that's a very good point.
[00:27:52] So, you know, we were talking
[00:27:53] sonia: about accountability, and I think it's so important to me, especially as time goes on. So, can you talk a [00:28:00] little bit about the importance of accountability and how groups provide that? I think
[00:28:05] kathleen: coaching can provide that. I think therapy can provide that. And groups absolutely can provide that because accountability really helps people take responsibility for their own actions and decisions related to sobriety.
[00:28:21] really reinforces that recovery is a personal commitment. I think having regular check ins like in a support group, for example, can prevent complacency, which is a common risk in long term recovery. And I think, you know, accountability in a group can provide structure and a routine. So, you know, oh, okay, I'm going to my Everglow group on Monday nights, and I know that's happening.
[00:28:46] So it provides someone with structure and routine. I think you get immediate feedback right away. So you can bring a problem to the group. And I do think support groups, they build trust. Like if you have accountability and you are [00:29:00] having accountability with a group that just builds that network of trust, which I think can often be damaged when there is a period of active addiction.
[00:29:09] Speaking of accountability, how do different groups or styles of support handle relapse, aka Slips.
[00:29:18] sonia: Typically, I would say like, not well. And I, I know that because when I get people in the groups, I see them beating themselves up about slips and saying, Well, I'm back at day one now. And it's like, No, we're not doing that.
[00:29:34] We're not judging ourselves. It doesn't negate, you know, 83 sober days having a slip one night, and I just hate that idea. I think 88 out of 90 sober days is a win, and you're developing the skills to stay sober. And I think, for me, the reason that it resonates so much is that I could not stay sober for one day.[00:30:00]
[00:30:00] And so, when I see people staying sober for like, 18 days, 21 days. I think that's, I don't think you realize what a huge win that is. If I could have done that in like, you know, year five of my daily drinking, that's a win. That proves something, right? And you just maybe need to work harder on the skills that, you know, happen in a longer period of time.
[00:30:24] So yeah, I really think that. It's important to find a group that you feel honest, like you feel comfortable that you can be honest with to get the support you need. Can you talk, Kathleen, a little bit about the roles of friends and family in supporting a loved one who's struggling?
[00:30:43] kathleen: Yes. And let's be really clear about this.
[00:30:46] Sometimes the role of friends and family, it won't be the type. of family that can support a loved one who is struggling. And so I think that just needs to be clear. You don't want judgment. You do [00:31:00] want, you know, empathy and understanding. I think active listening, I am a big fan of when someone comes to me outside of therapy, obviously, but in my personal life and start sharing a problem with me, I always ask them, do you want me to just listen?
[00:31:17] Or do you want help finding a solution? And oftentimes they'll say, I just need someone to listen. So I think that is, you know, a way to create that really. kind of empathetic space that allows for honest communication. I think family and friends that offer encouragement and motivation, um, can be really, really crucial for someone maintaining their sobriety and just their commitment to recovery in general.
[00:31:45] There are practical supports as well. So. You know, depending on what someone's going through when they're getting sober, sometimes family and friends can help with daily tasks and responsibilities, especially in early recovery to just try to alleviate [00:32:00] stress. Sometimes you could go with someone to a group meeting.
[00:32:04] You can help create a sober environment. There's also an educational piece. You know, if you're a friend or family and you have someone who's going through addiction or is on the road to recovery or is curious about recovery, then educate yourselves, learn about what the recovery process is like. And definitely, if that person needs professional help, you know, encourage it in a way that is not judgmental or not pushy.
[00:32:32] So what do you, what, what role do friends and family play in your support? When it
[00:32:39] sonia: specifically comes to staying sober, I really lean on, on people that have been through it. And I feel most accountable to them because they understand that, yeah, you can be sober for five years and then have a trigger. And I think that's something very specific to [00:33:00] sobriety.
[00:33:00] And so, yeah, that's who I feel most accountable for. were. But, you know, it was great. For example, I had, I had two in one, right? I had my brother who was both sober and family. But I think also in my case, you have to be careful with that because we were so close and he was both of those things when he relapsed.
[00:33:21] That was when. I sort of realized I didn't have that support that I needed. And so, yeah, I would say definitely lean on sober family members, but do not lean on them exclusively like I was doing. So what should family and friends do? Not do
[00:33:40] kathleen: well, there's a long, long list of things, but I'm going to keep it simple because I don't want to discourage someone who's listening about like, Oh my gosh, how am I going to remember all these things that I shouldn't do?
[00:33:53] But avoid enabling behavior. That means like even inadvertently supporting the addiction, such as [00:34:00] like giving money that could be used for alcohol or covering it up or making excuses or taking over the responsibilities and. You know, guilt or shame that does not work. If you try to motivate someone through guilt or shame or blame, that is definitely counterproductive and it can lead to someone feeling even more worthless than they might already feel.
[00:34:24] And it just exacerbate the problem, you know, avoiding judgmental attitudes. This is a big one. Don't ignore the problem. So acknowledging it and understanding it are really important steps. And really importantly. If there's family and friends who are supporting someone through recovery or addiction, make sure there's self care there.
[00:34:46] So don't neglect your own self care. The family and friends must also have their own health and well being to be able to help someone. And so I think those are some major ones. Yes, there's a long list, but those are [00:35:00] some big ones.
[00:35:01] sonia: So, Kathleen, what resonated with you the most from what we talked about today?
[00:35:07] kathleen: Well, I actually think something you said sort of towards the end of today's episode really resonated with me, and that's diversifying your support system because it's true. You know, if you have just one person or one friend or one support system, what happens when that is no longer there for you in that way?
[00:35:28] I think that was a big takeaway for me. What resonated with you the most?
[00:35:33] sonia: I think having sort of, not a schedule necessarily, but having, you know, different ways to get support during the week. And so, some keep you more accountable, some help you deal more with like the root causes. And so, yeah, I think like making sure you have, you know, in terms of like days of the week that you have the support you need.[00:36:00]
[00:36:00] kathleen: Next week, we'll talk about navigating the holidays without alcohol. And we'll talk about Christmas tips for not just getting through the holiday, but thriving and waking up on the 26th, feeling refreshed and ready for New Year's Eve.
[00:36:25] sonia: This was Sisters in Sobriety, a podcast brought to you by Everbloom, where we help women change their relationship with
[00:36:31] kathleen: alcohol. Thank you for listening and being with us
[00:36:33] sonia: today. If you want to learn more about sobriety and meet your community, find us
[00:36:38] kathleen: at joineverbloom. com. Are you a sister in sobriety?
[00:36:42] Then reach out on social media. We'd love to hear from you. If
[00:36:46] sonia: you're feeling generous, leave us five stars and a review and follow us wherever you
[00:36:50] kathleen: listen. You'll never miss an episode. Until next time.[00:37:00]